Was the author condescending, or are we just idiots?

[yendi]

So, I'm reading this novel. And at one point, the main character, an American with a solid education and a background in both medicine and tech reporting (think of a mind meld between kizlj and docorion), makes it abundantly clear that she's never heard of the English Civil War or Oliver Cromwell (she had to look him up in Encarta to verify that he even existed).

The author is British, so I'm trying to figure out if he honestly thinks that Americans are that fucking ignorant, or if (as all those articles about how Johnny Can't Find Texas on a Map argue), we live in a nation of morons, where even the college-educated know nothing (as Bill Maher notes, George Bush did go to Yale).

So, in light of that, for those of you who are American, do you have an idea of who Cromwell was and what the English Civil War entailed? If so, does it strike you as something that a college-educated person should be familiar with?

I'm curious if folks in other countries that were British colonies at the time also know about it. I'm not sure how many of you (if any) are in countries that aren't current or former British colonies, but I'm curious about that, as well.

And I'm taking it as a given that folks who are actually in Great Britain do know about Cromwell. :-)

ETA: Like I said, she'd never heard of him. Period. The name "Oliver Cromwell" rang a bell with her in roughly the same way that "Pbsurha't N'adsdsadlo" would. We're not just talking about being unable to write an essay here.

Comments

[mgrasso.livejournal.com]

Can I give the flipside? Someone I know over in England doesn't know much at all about the American Civil War, and she's fairly well educated. In fact, she said in school they learned next to nothing about the American Revolution. *shrug* And to be honest, even I would've been hazy on the DETAILS of the English Civil War before I read the Baroque Cycle.

[elorie.livejournal.com]

Yes, and as a matter of fact I learned about it in HIGH SCHOOL, as part of the "Western Civilization" (ie, European history) class I was required to take.

As I attended a rural north Georgia high school where half the building was taken up by the vocational wing, this was not some innovation or odd occurrence.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

As stated this morning, but I'll put it here as well: I only had a teeny bit of night school so far as college goes, and that didn't include history. But I damn well know about Oliver Cromwell. So a high school education ought to make one familiar with Cromwell, IMO.

[caulay.livejournal.com]

Which English Civil War? There were two (that I can think of off the top of my head), reasonably close together, not counting what happened when a bunch of disgruntled nobles invited William of Orange to come run the country instead of their current king.

As for Cromwell, don't get me started on him and what he did to England and Ireland. He had less effect in Wales and Scotland.

[merrick42.livejournal.com]

In Plymouth, NH, we learned the basic facts about Cromwell and the English Civil War (the basic who, when, where, & why) in our Global and European history classes. The Global History class was aimed at freshmen and sophomores who intended on going to college and the Euro History class was designed for those of us planning on taking the AP test. We also had the cultural history described in our college-bound level Senior english class. Our school saw about 25-33% of our graduating seniors from that time going on to college after high school.

[felician-logic.livejournal.com]

I think it's as much a commentary on American 'education' as it is on our isolationism. Granted, this is a fictional character, and I haven't met anyone who has a college education who doesn't know who Oliver Cromwell was (not that it's a common topic of conversation). But as a nation, we're rather disconnected from foreign influences, even those to our north and south. Sure, we'll eat the cuisine. But do we know anything about the revolution that brought it here? I do because it's the same revolution that brought my family here. But if I wasn't part of it, would I know it? I hope so, but I doubt it.

[auryn29a.livejournal.com]

I was an English major for the first part of my college career, then moved to Computer Science as a major with English as a minor and I graduated with a BA. I am vaguely aware that there was an English Civil War. I've heard the name Cromwell but have no idea who he was or what he did. I might have been told at some point in my life but if I have I've totally forgotten it.

[aussie-nyc.livejournal.com]

I know about Cromwell from being reasonably well read as a kid. I don't recall him being covered in school at any stage.

[harold3.livejournal.com]

Well... think of it in this light.

How much do you know about the 1837 Rebellion? Major history in Canada, not so much anywhere else.

In cultural context foreign history isn't really that important to the average Jill or Joe unless it has something to do with their family history. Yes well read and educated people will know a bit about major historical events around the world but the average work-a-day member of society isn't really someone that cares or should be expected to care about these things.

If they cared enough to educate themselves... well, maybe things would be different in a whole lot of different ways. As it is, meh.

[endora.livejournal.com]

I remember reading about Cromwell, English Civil War(s), etc. as part of a "World History" class in high school, over 20 years ago.

[yendi]

Except we were never a Canadian colony. We were, however, a British colony at the time of Cromwell. In other words, it's not just "their" history, but also linked to ours.

[dougals.livejournal.com]

I'm on the same page, here. Maybe hafl a year's-worth of college and I know about him. May not know specifics of the English Civil War(s?), but was ware of their existence.

But then, I'm a trivia/history geek. Currently researching the July 1944 assassination attempt on Hitler for a superhero RPG (Yes, they have to save Hitler...).

[ian-gunn.livejournal.com]

I certainly know about Cromwell and the English civil war. I think it was covered in my European history course in high school but I know more from college and my own reading, being something of a history buff.

[ckd]

I'll join the list of folks who know who Cromwell was.

I'll also point out that your friends list is not a typical cross-section of Americans, even adjusting for the "college-educated" criterion.

Amusing side note: there's a card game which is basically a rummy variant using English monarchs (collect three Henrys in numerical order, collect four monarchs in reign order). There's a Cromwell card. It's a wild card, because "Cromwell can replace any monarch". Bwahaha!

[popfiend.livejournal.com]

I do, my wife probably wouldn't and we're both college educated. She might have studied in in high school, but she proomptly forgot it as she is not a history geek. It holds no interest for her, so it very rarely registers. Ask her a math question and she can go on and on.

It's taught, but it may not be retained based on the individuals relationship with the subject matter. Anyone with a modicum of interest in history would know. Without that...not so much.

[murnkay.livejournal.com]

Also? Canada.

I mean... come on. Canadian history? *Smirk*

[harold3.livejournal.com]

But your talking about american culture, where half the people don't understand why natives on guam, puerto rico, the virgin islands, etc. etc. have american passports.

You work in a college, so you see the caliber of our "students" and future professionals... I'd think you'd be more cynical than I when it comes to this type of stuff. ;)

[rosefox]

Likewise. I know where to go to look him up, though (I'd start with Edward Rutherford's London and Sarum, but that's just me).

[harold3.livejournal.com]

That would sting if it wasn't true.

[ckd]

Hell, people don't understand why folks in Albuquerque have US passports; that's why they had to make the license plates say "New Mexico USA"!

[murnkay.livejournal.com]

Hey. Tim Hortons and Hockey. I'm down with Cananda.

But... yeah.

[harold3.livejournal.com]

All I need to know about Albuquerque, I learned from bugs bunny.

I need to take a left turn there.

[dindin.livejournal.com]

That's about the extent of my knowledge on the subject.

[gladstone.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to figure out if he honestly thinks that Americans are that fucking ignorant, or if we live in a nation of morons

Way to overgeneralize, Yendi. You're talking about one character in one novel. You can't come to any reasonable conclusion about what the author thinks of Americans because your sample size is too small.

[terracinque.livejournal.com]

I know about Cromwell, and the Squareheads, and the Regency etc. etc. But I read all the time. I don't think I learned about them in school.