Cromwell follow-up

[yendi]

So, it turns out that if you want to comment-whore, Cromwell is almost as effective as sex or politics. Who knew?

Anyway, it's pretty clear that, although knowledge of Cromwell is second nature to some, it's a nigh-unheard-of topic to others. So it sounds like the characterization is legit, although I still feel mildly surprised about her lack of knowledge.

For those with the patience for it, there are some damned interesting comments in the thread from yesterday.

I deliberately didn't mention the book itself, as I know some folks have read the author, and I wanted basically neutral opinions. That said, the book is The Hidden Family, by Charles Stross, and it's damned fun (which is why that one scene was so frustrating). It's the second book in The Merchant Princes series, so you'd be best off reading The Family Trade first. Once you get past all the blurbs insisting you compare Stross to Zelazny (as I noted yesterday in another context, would you want to compare penis size to John Holmes?), the books are perfectly fun fantasy novels with some nice examinations of and twists on traditional genre motifs (although they seem to get as much hate as love on Amazon, especially by folks who seem to have expected something more than fluff -- the tendency of everyone from editors to critics to compare the series to Amber certainly doesn't help).

Comments

[bibliogirl.livejournal.com]

I have almost certainly said this before but, given your known liking for Michael Marshall Smith, you should really read Stross' Atrocity Archives if you didn't already do so. It's in small-press hardback at present, and coming out in paperback (from a bigger publisher) on, if memory serves, 3rd January.

[yendi]

I remember you mentioning it before I'd read any Stross. I've now wishlisted it (it's coming out from Ace). Thanks!

[theferrett.livejournal.com]

Interestingly enough, you'll probably find that the number of comments that admit to an ignorance of Cromwell and the English Civil War are drastically understated. Me? I'd heard the name and knew vaguely that a Civil War had happened, but didn't feel like getting lectured on how I should know history better, yadda yadda yadda. Whereas I suspect that if I had known, I would have stood up proudly and shouted, "Yes, I'm intelligent!"

[ian-gunn.livejournal.com]

What he said, I think that accounts for the high comment volume more then the specific topic.

[yendi]

I was being facetious about that part. :-)

[ian-gunn.livejournal.com]

It's too early. Need more caffine. Or less staying up late gaming.

[yendi]

The former. Less gaming leads to brain deterioration. I'm sure there's science to prove it.

[yendi]

*nod* That's partially what led to the ETA on that post, as what boggled me wasn't just that she didn't know all about Cromwell, but that the name didn't ring a bell at all. But yeah, I didn't exactly frame the original post to make that clear (a result of my own Angocentrism, amongst other things), and the topic definitely strayed.

[sibylla.livejournal.com]

I still maintain that "Oliver Cromwell" and "English Civil War" should at least ring a bell with most college graduates. A "Hrm ... that sounds familiar, but I can't tell you why," as opposed to a vacant stare and a "Huh-wha?"

[callumf.livejournal.com]

I only noticed this today (via a post by pbristow) and must say it strikes me as a bit odd (am UKish btw).

The English Civil War took place over a century before the American War of Independence, and it had significant consequences both in Europe and throughout the colonies, so I would have assumed that there would be at least a general awareness that it had occured -- in much the same way as in the UK there's a general (if perhaps not very good) awareness of the ACW & AWoI.

The average Brit's perception of the ACW is probably little better than -- Evil Southern Slavers are defeated by Democratic Northern Heroes; while the AWoI came about because taxes were too high and you lot didn't like tea.

Then again, a significant number of Americans don't know who George III was, which is even more astonishing than them not knowing about the ECW.

[rowancat.livejournal.com]

"Then again, a significant number of Americans don't know who George III was, which is even more astonishing than them not knowing about the ECW."
.....................................
Depends in part on who your friends are and where you live, who you talk too etc, i think...

A few years back i won a gold guinea of George III, rose shield reverse, 1776 date, at a price *way* below what that
date or even a 1775 date costs here in the USA.
Always wanted one but very hard to find and too expensive.

(i had lost a bid before that on Ebay for one found in New York by the Hudson River in the woods)

I won it in an online auction from the Jean Elsen Co. in Belgium (ironically, it had an American provenance from a collection of them going back to James II)

When talking about it to friends and even in an online e group i belong to, everyone understood the significance
of the coin (besides the obvious date) and why it would have been found here in Massachusetts where the type and its fractions commonly circulated before, during and after the AWoI.

And even why the next issue by him in 1787 was derisively named the spade guinea in England (the unfortunate shape of the shield resembling a shovel, almost prefiguring Bush here now digging us into a financial hole in the ground due to the cost of an unnecessary war among other things ;)

An interesting footnote

[dragontdc.livejournal.com]

To the English Civil War is the mass migration of displaced Cavaliers and their sympathisers to the Colonies in the Carolinas, laying the foundation of Southern "gentlemanly" and "ladylike" conduct that persists, though somewhat faded, to this day.

[phantom_wolfboy]

I, of course, disagreed.

[yendi]

Thing is, I wonder how you'd have approached the novel if you hadn't been hit with the Zelazny comparisons. If you'd gone in expecting escapist fluff with a few tweaks on parallel world tropes and some interesting twists on economics, instead of something that could be compared to one of the great works of fantasy.

It's one reason that I'm generally pretty against blurbs and gratuitous cover copy. Give me a plot summary, maybe a name or two of an author who was impressed, but don't set false expectations.

[phantom_wolfboy]

ACtually, my biggest problem was the lack of a likeable hero. I would still have bitched about the false comparison, but because there was no one to root for . . .