Yngve on Fanfic

[yendi]

Well, that's not entirely accurate, as that implies a link to a reasoned, thought-out article. Instead, go check out A.R. Yngve calling Cory Doctorow a panderer and a sell-out (while using the "I don't use his name" cop-out that the best trolls love so much) and attacking fanficcers as "leeches," all the while never actually responding to any of the (gasp) arguments Doctorow makes in his piece.

Comments

[corwinok.livejournal.com]

Yngve sounds like a dick. I think I'll avoid his stuff.

[yendi]

Yep. First I'd heard of him, and I've got no real incentive to track down any of his books now.

[dragontdc.livejournal.com]

"Yngve is a Louse!"

Or so many science-fiction and fantasy authors would have it said in their works. (The Incomplete Enchanter, and one of the Dorsai books come to mind offhand.)

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

It doesn't help his cause that he sounds like a spoiled brat who's found out someone else has been playing with his toys.

Even the responses on his own blog are snarking at him.

[catystorm.livejournal.com]

*rolls eyes* You know, I have half a mind to go read his stuff and then horribly fic the hell out of it, but that requires, you know. Interest in actually reading whatever the hell it is he's written.

[yendi]

Yeah, I've got the same problem.

[ydnic.livejournal.com]

What a dork. Bask in the eloquence of those you have made yourself the cheerleader of, Cory. May they fanfic all your novels. *snort* If this is an example of Yngve's great writing, I think I'll pass, thanks. :P

[yendi]

My sentiments exactly.

[trochee.livejournal.com]

hah, see, when I first read that "bask..." comment on the locus piece, I thought it was an indirect compliment.

then i realized it was the same guy that yendi pointed me to in the first place, and i re-read it with an air of sarcasm, and it worked.

too bad, i liked the first interpretation better: "may you be forever celebrated by those you champion" -- not really a bad benediction at all, along the lines of "may you always be welcome".

[duane-kc.livejournal.com]

My first impulse on reading this is to Google A. R. Yngve and make notes on what he's written, so I don't accidentally ever put any money in his pocket.

Then I look again and realize that he's probably someone like Roger Ebert, who has no creativity of his own; just a deep-seated need to criticize those who do.

[yendi]

(Incidentally, "Google A. R. Yngve" sounds like the name on a piece of spam mail.)

We'll have to disagree on Ebert (who I think is talented and perceptive, and exemplary of what a critic should be), although I agree with you assessment of Yngve (with the obvious caveats that someone out there has bought his work, and that there are good fiction writers -- like Helprin -- who spew utter stupidity in other genres).

[bassfingers.livejournal.com]

Doctorow releases all his books in Creative Commons, yet denies the creation of derivative works. It's one checkbox on the CC form. If he really feels strongly about fanfic, he has the power to allow it done to his own work legally. He doesn't, so he's a bit hypocritical.

[yendi]

See my response over on Yngve's blog; fanfic (by Doctorow's standards) is Fair Use, and is thus explicitly allowed under his contract. The box prevents movies and stage musicals based on his work without his consent.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I should upload the panel discussion he was on at the Book Festival - I bought a copy of it afterward. He's very clear at the outset that he has no trouble at all whatsoever about people having permission to use any part of it -

I'll say it again. He can stay. We LIKE Cory, a lot!

[yendi]

If this was the one with Scalzi and Baker, he's already <a href='http://craphound.com/?p=1834">uploaded it</A> (although I haven't listened to it yet). :-)

Hee.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's it! (The first voice you hear is Harry Turtledove, BTW.)

Want to hear me make a fool of myself? I'm the last speaker in the Q & A at the end.

This isn't true

[doctorow.livejournal.com]

This isn't true. Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom and ALL of my CC licensed short stories are BY-NA-SA.

Re: This isn't true

[bassfingers.livejournal.com]

So I'm up to speed, then:

Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/1.0/
A Place So Foreign and Eight More - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd-nc/1.0
Eastern Standard Tribe - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd-nc/1.0
Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town - "Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.0 License"
Overclocked - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/legalcode

Are you counting Place So Foreign and Eight More as CC licensed shorts? Because at first glance they appear to be ND as well. I'll grant you Down & Out and Overclocked.

And don't get me wrong, I admire the fact that you're releasing them CC, and I fully respect the work of Lessig et al to offer some alternatives to the current copyright controls. But if you're such a fan of the practice of fanfic, I find it interesting that you don't have more of your work non-commercial derivative-OK. Yendi's saying that the CC non-derivative clause in the CC contract is explicitly for things like film or musical adaptations, or the like. While I see it written as such, I don't see an explicit allowance for fanfic, and I'm not sure I buy Yendi's defense that such falls under the fair use clauses attached to CC. For that matter, I'm not comfortable wrapping my head around a situation where a fanfic is permissible but a fanfilm isn't, but I do respect the author's right to make that distinction if they feel it's necessary.

[cheshyre]

Look @ the rest of Yngve's oevre on his blog.

Over a week ago, he wrote what he claimed was "The Last Word On Fan Fiction. (Promise.)"

He should've stopped before then...

He's now selling an anti-fanfic t-shirt...

[yendi]

You're more patient than I am; I couldn't bring myself to see what else he'd ranted about before. Now I regret looking.

Maybe he'll turn his anti-fanfic t-shirts into a profitable venture, selling tons of them to like-minded folks. At which point, he'd be rich as a direct result of fanfic.

[cheshyre]

More patient or more foolish?

I keep reminding myself of the adage about not mudwrestling a pig, but can't help commenting back...

[phantom_wolfboy]

Cory Doctorow has never written one word that I agreed with.

Well, maybe when he signs his name.

Hmmm, do we know for sure that is his real name?

Anyway, I disagree with Doctorow, though that does not necessarely mean I agree with Yngve. If my net.connection was being less of a bitch I'd go argue with him.

[yendi]

I suspect there are plenty of folks ready and willing to argue with both of them.

[envoy.livejournal.com]

He's just pissed that Cory has, through his CCing his works, basically made fan fic completely legal and he can't hand it.

[yendi]

Honestly, with the venom Yngve's spewing, I wonder if Cory ran over his dog or someting.

[cheshyre]

Nah, sounds like he's been generally unpleasant for a long time

[yendi]

Holy shit! Now I know where I've seen his name before! Thanks! :-)

[amokk]

Doesn't "selling out" involve gaining money by the action?