Westboro

[yendi]

The Supreme Court has ruled, by a rare 8-1 decision, that the Westboro Baptist Church can continue to protest at military funerals.

I hate Fred Phelps and everything he and his hate-filled family of homophobic asshats stand for. I wouldn't shed a single tear or spare an ounce of sympathy for anything bad that happens to them, and I almost wish I weren't an agnostic just so I could be assured that they'd all rot in hell.

But any decision that would allow their protests to be curtailed would also allow other forms of protest to be blocked (including many of the ones going in in Wisconsin, as well as the Tea Party protests, the WTO protests in 1999, and others on various sides of the political spectrum). We offer this as a fundamental right in the First Amendment, and there is no exclusion made for blocking assholes.

These people are hate-filled scum, but if we allow the Constitution to be curtailed because of them, we're actually playing into their hands, and creating exactly the sort of environment where anyone who has an outsider opinion -- something that historically has come from the progressive side of the spectrum a lot more than from the neanderthal atavistic side that Westboro represents -- can be silenced.

That said, of course, I'll be the first to admit that I've cheered the various attacks by Anonymous against them.

(Also, this continues to convince me that Alito was one of the worst decisions Bush made.)

Comments

[readingthedark.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. They're dirtbags, but the First Amendment means a whole lot more than they do.

[xforge.livejournal.com]

::nod:: That's how I feel about most of the Supreme Court too.

Oh you were talking about Westboro ::blush::

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Sometimes I hate it when they do the right thing, but I would hate it more if they did it wrong.

It doesn't surprise me that Alito was the lone dissent. Man's insane straight up evil.

[rosefox]

On behalf of crazy people everywhere, thank you for that correction. Seriously.

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

I like to think I know better and do better on the first try, but linguistic habits die hard as any other.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

I believe a dissent is a good thing in any decision.

[luis-mw.livejournal.com]

I strongly object to the use of various terms in your post. Using them to describe Phelps and his crew is an insult to assholes, scum, Neanderthals etc.

[yendi]

Good point. Alas, it's hard to find adjectives or comparisons that work, and describing them as "Phelpsian" is recursive.

[fings.livejournal.com]

The hate is probably an act, at least in part. WBC are trolls, trying to aggravate people into doing things the WBC use to can sue for damages. http://kanewj.com/wbc/

[yendi]

Yeah, I'm sadly all too aware of their business model.

[sterling-raptor.livejournal.com]

I hear you. I really really do. I freely admit I'm too close to this to be unbiased. But I just think some things should be protected and a family's right to grieve should be one of them. Allow them to protest, but not anywhere near the family. I logically get that just because it is heinous doesn't mean it is illegal...but AUGH! And I know you get that.

I freely admit if my husband ever dies and his funeral is protested, I will be making the national news for driving a semi through the horde.

[yendi]

*nod* I get that, completely.

[ex-gnomicut.livejournal.com]

I admit, I actually haven't even been cheering on Anonymous. They make all their money off lawsuits, and they get all their joy out of press. The best thing to do about the bastards at Westboro is ignore them-- it frustrates the hell out of them.

(That being said, I actually think that -- protesting at funerals aside, which is unforgivable and absolutely First Amendment protected -- I think they do a little bit of good. They show the slippery slope side of certain loathsome beliefs, to the extent that I have a friend who is convinced they are progressive moles. I think she's wrong, but I see why she had that belief.)

[ex-gnomicut.livejournal.com]

There are antecedent problems in my second sentence. By "They" I mean Westboro, of course.

[yendi]

Yeah, I try my best to ignore them (and decided to not even go to work on the day they picketed here, or when they went after Emory a few years ago when I was there, as I didn't want to feel tempted). In a perfect world, the press would ignore them completely, and I wouldn't know them from any of a zillion other hate groups.

I've heard the mole theory before (and a similar one that PETA are plants of the meat industry). Such theories are fun to indulge in, but there are too unlikely, given the level and breadth of the zealotry. That said, I do hope you're right about their showing the slippery slope of those beliefs to those who need to see it.

[rubian77.livejournal.com]

The media needs to stop paying attention to Phelps and his group. They do it for the attention more than anything else -- we need to cut that avenue of satisfaction totally off.

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

The supreme court made it clear that because of the very specific circumstances in this ONE case, they find WBC was just exercising freedom of speech. As pointed out elsewhere, they aren't stupid, they know exactly where the line is drawn and they stand right on top of it. If they were to get in anyone's personal space or actually attend the funeral, I'm sure the verdict would have been quite different.

So long as they keep a reasonable distance away from teh actual graveside service and do not invade the personal space of the mourners, then I'm prepared to ignore them over and over. But frankly, this is one of those few times I really wish someone would... teach them a lesson. Unfortunately the only way they'd learn anything is by someone doing something illegal to them. WHich I don't condone.

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

the only thing I do think about the verdict is that I wonder how hard it would have been for the USSC to sharply define "public arena" as it pertains to funerals. After all, the WBC cannot crash the memorial services and they can't invade someone's wake because those are considered private property. But because a graveyard is technically "public" they are allowed? But a graveyard doesn't HAVE to be public, does it?

[jerel.livejournal.com]

I don't think it does. I guess we can ask, who pays for the cemetery? If it's not owned by the city, county, etc., I would assume the owners have a right to say "All right, you lot have to clear off" and make them stand on the sidewalk.

[stephen-dedman.livejournal.com]

If I remember the NY Times article on this correctly, the court pointed out that 43 states have laws that require demonstrators (a broad categorisation that includes hate-mongering publicity-seeking scumbags such as Phelps, as well as the protesters in Egypt, Libya and Wisconsin) to keep a specified distance from the grave. The majority opinion also made it clear that they believed the first amendment was meant to protect free speech for all, however loathsome that speech might be (see also United States v. Stevens, their decision about animal cruelty videos).

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

I agree with your view on this.

[ex-bookkeep.livejournal.com]

Freedom of Speech must include asshole speech.

I expected better of Alito. Ah well. What's one more totalitarian on the pile?

[jerel.livejournal.com]

I hope that at one of their hate-fests*, the ground opens up and swallows the whole lot. However, I support their right to hold a hate-fest.

*I can't call it a protest, because I feel that's an insult to all those who have marched or picketed for a legitimate reason.

[jadecat9.livejournal.com]

Totally agree with everything you've said.