Speaking of things that annoy me today

[yendi]

Remember when Warren Ellis actually understood the characters he was writing?

Oh, I know. He never actually got any of his characters other than the ones he created, or the occasional one who'd been so underdeveloped, it was like getting a blank slate anyway (see his Stormwatch run).

But still, this is a pretty good example of having no fucking clue what Captain America is about:



Someone (either on Wait, What, or at Arisia) recently talked about how no one who writes Wonder Woman actually reads the previous runs, so the character is rarely true to herself. Ellis is the epitome of this (as is JMS), and while I often love him, he sometimes shouldn't be allowed to touch certain characters.

Comments

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

As far as ive seen, Ellis doesnt know how to write a character who is truly "good".

his characters are either good guys who are cynical, and bend the rules;

Or a stereotypical good guy who's really twisted, or a villain;

Or a stereotypical good guy who's naive, and clueless.

[yendi]

*nod* And I like those characters, but if he wants to write a character who's been established as a different type, he either needs to adjust, or not do it.

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

Yeah.

And if every character acts like that Transmet guy, or Wolverine, then how are those characters special anymore?

Remember in "Being John Malkovich", when everybody in the restaurant was Malkovich?

Thats what his comics are like sometimes.

Every character is just Ellis.

[adam-0oo.livejournal.com]

I was about to say something similar, but not as well, so, ditto.

[matt_doyle]

Wow. Yeah, Cap would never. If there's no good answer to a question, Cap is the guy who finds a better question.

I love Ellis, but this is not a new pattern for him. The only not-Ellis character he does really well, as far as I have seen, is Constantine, and that's because Constantine is exactly the kind of character he writes anyway.

His run on Astonishing X-Men was remarkably tone-deaf as well; I think perhaps his ability to handle other characters is actively getting worse as time passes.

[yendi]

Yeah, he was blowing it back in the Druid days, even. I think he's less inclined to even try, now, because he knows he's a star, and Marvel will pay him.

[matt_doyle]

Yeah. His name sells, regardless.

Wow. I just realized that I haven't bought a comic book in eleven months.

[yendi]

Daredevil's and the soon-ending Punisher Max are the only reason I'm willing to acknowledge Marvel still exists (although I've heard good things about Wolvie and the X-Men).

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

FF is still supposed to be really good.

Although "killing" the Human Torch and bringing him back almost immediately was ridiculous.

[matt_doyle]

On the Marvel side of things, I always followed Spider-Man and Runaways, Runaways is still on "indefinite hiatus" after years, BND killed my interest in mainstream Spider-Man, and just when I thought things were going well in Ultimate Spider-Man, they killed him (though I love the idea of Miles Morales and want to check that out... I was really deeply invested in Ultimate Spider-Man, and all that they did to shake up the franchise in the last couple years burned me out).

On the DC side of things, well, the re-boot in September basically wrecked all my favorite corners of the Universe -- the Batkids and the Titans, primarily, though wrecking Batkids is something of a DC editorial pasttime.

So, yeah. I'm still enthusiastic about the characters and the medium, but at the moment I feel sort of orphaned by superhero comics.

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

I remember that! Like every x man was snarky, or mean, except the asian teenager.

[matt_doyle]

Yeah. Some of them it fit quite well; others not so much. After Whedon's run it was especially conspicuous. And the Ghost Box plot just felt misplaced -- it didn't seem to fit in an X-title at all, to me.

[greatcalvero.livejournal.com]

Can we create a petition calling for Ellis to stop tinkering with characters he clearly doesn't have a feel for, and to hurry up and finish and release the second Fell book?

[spacehawk.livejournal.com]

as is JMS

OH MY GOD DON'T GET ME STARTED.

[yendi]

Heh. If he'd ended his writing career in 1998, I'd have such a different opinion of him.

[hughcasey.livejournal.com]

See, I took this as being a bluff on his part. Good cop, bad cop.

[yendi]

The problem with any bluff, of course, is that you can get called on it.

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

Warren Ellis was never subtle. Will never be subtle. As time goes on, he will become the leftist version of Frank Miller, repeating the same tired cliches with a righteous indignation that seems repeatedly clueless.

[unquietsoul5.livejournal.com]

I think he's working under the assumption that Captain America is the 'spirit' of America and that he needs to be changed as the government/population changes its attitudes on different things. Thus since our government is perfectly willing to now hand over detainees to foreign governments we are allied with for interrogation instead of us doing it in an illegal manner, so too must Cap follow the concept to its logical conclusion of the statement in the panel.

The problem is that he has failed to understand that Cap is not a 'move your ethics with the changing times' kind of guy, He's supposed to be about ideals like upholding the Constitution, finding truth even if its not politically convient and justice.

[lordrexfear.livejournal.com]

The problem with anyone commenting on this without knowing is context is ridiculous.

This is not the Steve Rogers you know. This is the Steve Rogers that Ed Brubaker has turned him into. He is not your Captain America or the Cap you think of.

This is the Cap who got shot through time and relived the entire war with a new perspective, this is the Steve Rogers who was placed in charge of not only a reintroduced S.H.I.E.L.D. but all of America's Security after Norman Osborne's H.A.M.M.E.R fell. This is Steve Rogers who saw the creation of Cyclops X-Force squad and understood it because of his reexperience of the war, a Steve Rogers who tend made his own secret operatives afters finding out the truth about how S.H.I.E.LD started and who Nick Fury really was, a Steve Rogers who had willingly given up Captain America to his best friend Bucky Barnes.

This is the the Captain America of Jonathan Hickman, Brian Michael Bendis, Ed Brubaker, Matt Fraction Architect Marvel. He might not be what you think of as Captain America or Steve Rogers, but he does fit into the scheme of things.

You can dislike it all you want, but when you call Ellis' understanding of the character into question, then you need to be able to back that up with facts.

Just saying.

[yendi]

I have been following Cap (I'm actually a huge Cap fan, dating back to my childhood, although I probably didn't really immerse myself in him until the early 2000s). I've got some serious issues with Brubaker's writing, as well (he's another writer who I think is better on his own characters, although I did adore Sleeper with a passion), but I still think he's a lot more nuanced than Ellis is, all things considered. Ellis's writing here still seems out of place (and has been during his entire run, although not nearly as much as on Astonishing X-Men).

(And don't get me started on the "how S.H.I.E.L.D. started" thing.)