I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

[yendi]

Both The Sarah Conner Chronicles and Dollhouse pick up a ton of extra viewers from DVRs as opposed to live Nielsen households.

The shock, of course, is at the idea that anyone still thinks that Nielsen ratings mean anything, statistically.

Comments

[allah-sulu.livejournal.com]

Since DVR viewers presumably don't watch the commercials, is this relevant to the all-important advertisers?

[alladinsane.livejournal.com]

Except to FOX who will prob pull the plug on both eventually...

[yendi]

Possibly -- Tivo now has enhanced ads (ones that chime to get your attention), and Dollhouse is one of the shortened-commercial shows (with 60-second breaks that are less likely to be fast-forwarded).

And since product placement is a huge part of the industry as well, it's still relevant on that level, too.

[yendi]

Dollhouse's crappy first episode might have saved it for a while. Fox generally goes after good shows, first.

[allah-sulu.livejournal.com]

Well, if product placement counts, should they also get credit for people who download the episodes on bittorrent?

[yendi]

Sure, but the problem (imho) is less a matter of money than of control. The networks hate giving it up.

[coffeeinhell.livejournal.com]

The Nielsen people are still desperately scrambling to find some way, any way, to approximate the service they provided for so many years, because they're obsolete. Back in 2004, they said that they planned to be able to count "time-shifting" viewers by 2006, but had to roll it back to 2007 ... and they still haven't figured it out.

Frankly, I'm amazed that they're still in business.

[yendi]

I'm not sure they ever really provided the service (the initial surveys were flawed in terms of both representation and data capture, they remained flawed for representation through the Nielsen box days, and they haven't handled time skipping since hte invention of the VCR).

They remain in business because the networks need some number -- any number -- to use to entice advertisers, and no one in the network/Nielsen/advertiser triangle is willing to talk about the complete lack of clothes on the emperor.

[coffeeinhell.livejournal.com]

True, the truthiness of the Nielsens has always been highly questionable. But at least they managed to fake it well enough for a long time that, as you point out, the industry could at least pretend that the numbers had some basis in reality. Not so much now.

Nielsen is a huge conglomerate (they own Billboard, Adweek, and The Hollywood Reporter, in addition to selling marketing info on TV, radio, and 'net) and they're deeply invested in old media. They outsourced a small number of jobs to India last year, and took heat for it. I think it's notable that they're returning to doing radio ratings this year for the first time in two decades -- I wonder if it's because, even with satellite radio, that market's not changing at the same pace as other media.

[penmage.livejournal.com]

Do you know if they take ratings from viewings on Hulu and Fox's website? Do those factor in anywhere?

[jdotmi.livejournal.com]

They do, but streaming video such as that is counted in a smaller hit than even DVR is, and the payout that advertisers are willing to give for it is retardedly small. Hence always seeing the exact same commercial at every commercial break when you watch them.

[penmage.livejournal.com]

It's good to know that they count, though. Downloading eps is easier for me than streaming from Hulu, but I try to stream anyway to help boost the ratings.

[lordrexfear.livejournal.com]

as long as Dollhouse at least gets a full season to totally swim I'm good.

I personally just can't get into the Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Ya know supposedly in the last few weeks WWE Raw has been #1 in its timeslot somehow? That proves numbers are bullshit.

[nishar.livejournal.com]

My Dvr records just about everything I watch now. And i watch both shows. I think the Nielsen ratings need to change or go the way of most newspapers.

[cscottd.livejournal.com]

I never watch live television any more. In fact, for most shows, I generally tend to "save up" several episodes, and then watch them as mini-marathons.

That's not even taking into consideration the number of shows from other countries that I watch via "non-traditional" means.