An analogy

[yendi]

I've just re-read all of Ostrander and Yale's original '80s and '90s run on Suicide Squad (more on that Monday) and all of Giffen's run on the book in 2001.

I've decided that Giffen's run is basically the Ocean's Twelve to Ostrander's Ocean Eleven. It's even worse read in one sitting than it was reading them monthly, and issue 5 (the Deadshot/cake one in the trailer park) might actually be the worst-written comic I've ever owned.

Comments

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

my favorite dc books: (keep in mind, im a marvel zombie.)

omega men
wolfman/perez titans
byrne superman
batman year one, original dark knight series
adams/oneil lantern-arrow
that batgirl series with cassandra cain

yeah, im not a big DC guy. But they had a few things i loved.

theres a few others, but i cant rememeber tham all now.

[yendi]

I was pretty immersed in DC in the late '70s and most of the '80s, but the last few years have basically cured me.

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

thats why even as a casual DC reader, the whole flashpoint thing irks me-real DC fans must be going fucking bezerk.

[yendi]

Well, Didio and Johns are fans, and they clearly think all fans think like tehy do. This will be the test of whether they're right.

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

well maybe 70's/80s fans.

[taraljc.livejournal.com]

Nothing in the entire universe makes me as happy as the Ostrander & Yale run of Suicide Squad.

[yendi]

I'd completely forgotten how brutal the Oracle reveal was. We found out that Babs was Oracle at the same time that she found out that Flo was dead. It was this incredible mix of pathos and "holy shit" that still floors me.

(And the post has been edited to reflect Yale, who I in no way meant to leave out.)

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

Here's another thing, if i have to be honest.

I think sometimes nostalgia is more powerful than the current reality, but it's SHITTIER, IN REALITY.

Let's take Oracle Vs Batgirl:

Batgirl pros:

If you're an old guy, you JUST LOVE BARBARA GORDON AS BATGIRL.

But in reality: even IN A FUCKING WHEELCHAIR, Oracle is just BETTER. She just FUCKING IS.

And this is coming from a guy who's NEVER EVEN READ AN ACTUAL FUCKING COMIC WITH ORACLE IN IT!!!!

But...if i read the wiki entry of Oracle....objectively, she sounds bad ass,

On the Batgirl side-THERE'S NO LOGICAL REASON FOR BATGIRL TO EXIST EXCEPT THAT SHE LOOKS HOT IN THAT FUCKING COSTUME.

anyone who wants to copy/paste this on all the comic book boards, you have my permission.

[yendi]

Yeah, Barbara as Oracle was so much better developed as a character than she was as Batgirl, and just so much more interesting. There's simply no way to justify the switch without rationalization.

[lurkerwithout.livejournal.com]

I haven't pulled it out to reread in awhile. But I recall really liking the JL:Antartica first issue. And the one with the killer ants. And some of the rogue island of mages bits. Mostly for the Luthor/Waller interactions. Both of the two new character's felt clumsily inserted (the hacker more than the lost daughter). And of course the ending was really rushed...

But I don't remember much of the details to the trailer park stuff, beyond that it eventually involves Deadshot. Still better than 99% of Salvation Run though...

[yendi]

The first issue was actually pretty good, and the one with ants (the "myp" project -- Giffen doesn't win subtlety points, ever) wasn't bad, although it was basically more of the same. But man, the rest was terrible.

And I still haven't touched Salvation Run. Frankly, any pitch built around "hey, you know that crappy idea Marvel's doing with exiling Hulk? Let's make it thirty times crappier!" isn't one I'm very interested in.

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

Makes me wish that Ostrander was still writing Grimjack.

[yendi]

Ditto.