Explain yourselves!

[yendi]

Okay, Kerrigan-lovers! Explain yourselves! I included Sarah to balance the Terran/Protoss numbers. But her tragic arc ends early in the first game, as she's only really Sarah for five Terran missions. You might argue that her first appearance as Infested Kerrigan is tragic as far as showing where her potential went, but after that, she's neither tragic nor heroic.

Tassadar, in the meantime, gives his life for a worthy cause and is visible for the entire first Protoss campaign (Fenix lasts longer, but is more in the background, although his death probably angered me more than any other death in the SC universe). And Zeratul, of course, finally sees his race come close to reuniting, only be be torn apart by internal and external strife.

But Raynor, now there's a hero. Fighting for lost cause after lost cause, watching as his allies betray him, are betrayed, and die. Fighting against the infested body of the woman he loves, rescuing Megnsk, a man he despises, because he recognizes higher moral obligations (something that only Tassadar, of the other characters, can claim), always heading to the front lines, staying behind to allow for the Protoss retreat in Brood War, etc. Where the hell are all his votes? Are you penalizing him just because he doesn't share a last name with a toothy figure skater?

Comments

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

I have no clue who Sarah Kerrigan is. But I had to check something, and I am bound by the International Sarah Contract (paragraph eight, subparagraph b) to support all Sarahs unless otherwise obligated.

And I wanted to vote for Grimjack. *g*

[yendi]

Ah, but Jim's a guy who's pining for someone named Sarah, which should also get him some points.

[dwivian]

you take that back, before we break your knees.

(( sorry, but a hero in tragic circumstance is not a tragic hero, in my interpretation. Too much Jung in my past, I guess))

[yendi]

But without tragic circumstances, heroes can't exist at all.

And Jim's more than just someone in those circumstances -- he recognizes his flaws, recognizes his doom, and makes the sacrifices anyway.

[dwivian]

I'll have to disagree -- heroes exist where exceptional effort rises above commonplace reactions. That is, anyone that accepts the call to action in the face of a potential adventure has the makings of a hero.

As one that sees flaws, and the probable loss, Jim is a positive hero. Tragic heroes tend to be destined not for a loss of self in order to advance their aim, but to lose outright. Many die, as expected in such a powerful loss. It is some flaw in them that brings about the tragedy, not that they suffer through it, that makes them distinct from the more general Hero archetype.

((all this from a literature course that I found more engaging than re-reading Melville))

[philrancid.livejournal.com]

When we say "tragic", I think about how I felt as they got along, and if I actually felt sorry for them at any point, then I might feel they had some tragedy goin' on. Raynor was the shit--he's the whole reason I felt bad for Kerrigan in the first place, the aliens were just aliens, and Raynor's so much the man you don't dare feel sorry for him because it cheapens everything he did and what he stood for. The way the game was made I couldn't really get behind Protoss characters because I was still too busy trying to align my mind to the better tactics with their army units, and they were too damn "noble" (I have a problem with such as all that usually, like my heroes a little dirty).

[yendi]

See, that's what made Jim work for me -- he kept doing the right thing, kept taking the heroic course of action, but he lost everything in the process. It's not that I felt bad for him, but I felt that he's the only one to really come out of it poorer -- Kerrigan's alive and kicking and feeling good about herself, Tassadar's all about the noble sacrifice, and Zaratul just doesn't seem to care as much.

[unwilly.livejournal.com]

Yendi, put the game pad down and step back to reality.

Y'know go read a comic book.

[yendi]

Heh.

[unwilly.livejournal.com]

Heck, pick up the game pad and play CITY OF HEROS!

[yendi]

A) I don't do MMORPGs

and

B) I don't do Windows.

[amokk]

A husband who doesn't do windows? shocking. ;)


Ok, lame. Anyway.

If it didn't require Windows and wasn't 15 freaking dollars a month, I'd consider CoH. I'm really tempted by City of Villains, though...

[unwilly.livejournal.com]

City of Heroes was the only Massive that I even considered playing. From all reports it really is amazing.

[Unknown site tag] calls it City of Crack, because it provides that much good play.

And not even maids do windows nowadays. I keep waiting for nanotech self cleaning ones.

I didn't get into COH because I don't have the time to advance up the ranks, and I thought it might be hard to get teams together.

Turns out I was right one the time, but wrong on the team building.

Eh, I suppose the kids will grow up eventually and I can go find whatever version is available in 2022.

[yendi]

Yeah, that's one of the major factors for me as well when it comes to getting into MMORPG stuff, as well.

[shellefly.livejournal.com]

... I don't remember the game very well but I do remember Kerrigan. Actually what I remember the most is, "That's a Zergling, Lester. They're a smaller kind of Zerg."

[yendi]

There's some great lines thrown in (the best is the expansion, with Duran, who, if you click on him enough, starts singing Duran Duran lyrics).

[amokk]

I loved that. I had a program that had just the characters and all their lines, from SCVs through buildings and everything. I loved Duran.

Then again, I loved the Ghosts. Nukes are my friend.

[yendi]

I love Nukes. Well, I loved 'em in the original SC. Not as much in BW, as the opportunities to use them were rare. Plus, since I chose to eliminate the Physics Labs on that one either/or mission, I got nuked to the stone age afterwards.

[amokk]

It's been so long since I played... I could get them running in WINE on the old computer (where they were originally installed) but it'd be harder now (although not that hard, you just zip up the installed folder and transfer it). Of course, multiplayer won't work right under WINE.


I should buy it on Mac and put it on the laptop or something...

I suppose it came down to my definition of tragic.

[kenakari.livejournal.com]

Raynor, to me, was "hero" through and through. He did what was right, no matter what the cost. He did the hard things, because he could. Never found anything tragic about him. Same for Tassadar.

Kerrigan, the Zerg f'd her over, and made her into a manipulative monster, but part of her had to choose to be/remain that way. No human emotions left for Jimmy or anyone - that's what made her tragic in my opinion. She was flawed, Raynor and Tassadar were not.

Re: I suppose it came down to my definition of tragic.

[yendi]

See, that's the first defense I've heard that holds water. Although I still feel that losing his planet and all his friends is more than a little tragic.

Re: I suppose it came down to my definition of tragic.

[philrancid.livejournal.com]

What she said, and, see, it's all good for him to lose all that, but I guess what makes a character tragic, (going way out on a limb) is when their hopes, dreams, or ideals get tossed. Kerrigan believed in the good fight, only to get sacrificed by her own commanders--Jim, he knew everybody was a bastard to begin with, and he knew that his job was shit and most likely a losing proposition to begin with. I decided this would be my tentative definition of "tragic hero" after thinking that a good tragic hero would be someone along the lines of Sturm Brightblade.

Pardon me

[dubheach.livejournal.com]

But I have NO clue what world/book/tv/gaming series this refers to. Sounds fascinating though, would someone care to tell me what in the world you lot are talking about?

Re: Pardon me

[yendi]

Starcraft, which is still one of the few RTS games I can stand.

[amokk]

I have no defense. I like Kerrigan, so I ignore paltry things like human logic.

Resistance is futile.

[yendi]

Zerg, Borg, all the same.

[amokk]

Controlling hive mind? Check.
Random cannon fodder that all look the same? Check.
Infecting humans and assimilating them? Check.
Betrayed from within? I don't remember the Zerg enough.
Both names 4 letters ending in g? Check.


;)

[yendi]

Ending in "rg," actually.

And don't forget the sexy-in-a-creepy-way Queens (Borg and Blades).

[amokk]

I was trying to think of something with the queens. I didn't find Blades that sexy... creepy, sure. :)

[ktar.livejournal.com]

I actually sat there for five minutes trying to decide between Raynor and Kerrigan. Raynor was hands down my favourite character throughout Starcraft, and his sacrifices and death were powerful.

However, I guess the reason I chose Kerrigan was because she's still got potential. She's not pure evil, and Sarah's in there some where. You could see it in a few of her actions, she's not all zerg.

And she's not dead yet. She's got potential.